Anonymous asked: Why are the people who read the books so angry with the episode? Everybody just rants about the changes, it can't be THAT different from the books, right?
ASOS (AND MOST LIKELY SPOILERS FROM “THE LION AND THE ROSE” A.K.A SEASON 4 EPISODE 2)
Uhmmm… I really hate to seem like a book purist, I really do, I mean I don’t complain about every single detail changed (like Margaery and Olenna wearing nothing but blue, strong Belwas missing and so on and so forth), and sometimes I enjoyed the changes from the book - show Shae, the Cersei and Tommen scene, more Cersei/Tyrion scenes, not to mention Arya/Tywin, but this episode honestly seemed as if they took the setting and the names from the books and completely changed the characters. It doesn’t necessarily feel wrong for book readers, it even seems inconsistent with what the show has done by now and some changes are completely unnecessary, and don’t even fit the show setting itself.
So forgive me, but huge rant is about to start, and be careful when you read, cause here be spoilers:
I’m going to start with the scene that ticks me the most, and that is the Jaime/Cersei scene (because, yeah, I am a die-hard Jaime/Cersei shipper, but also because I absolutely adore both these two characters separately and the scene just murdered them).
I had high hopes for Jaime being in KL before the wedding, because I was hoping he’d have a meaningful scene with Joffrey and hoped for more Tyrion/Jaime scenes because they are such a beautiful pair of brothers. So you can’t say I started watching the episode with a bias.
MAJOR DEATH SPOILERS
The reunion of Jaime and Cersei has great depth in the books. He has lost the something that he sees as half his identity (because by this point in the books, he identified himself as Jaime the Knight, and his knighthood is based on his swordsmanship a.k.a his right hand, and Jaime the twin/lover of Cersei), He has lost a part of his identity and he returns to King’s Landing to find his other half. Cersei, on the other hand, has lost her firstborn and probably, the person she loved the most. She has seen her child die in front of her and she watched it powerless. They both face each other with great loses. You can’t compare Jaime’s trauma with Cersei’s trauma and viceversa. They both have their reasons to be grieving and they both seek comfort in the one place they’ve always found it - with each other. The first time Cersei sees him, she isn’t disgusted by his stump, she is terrified of what his captors have done to him. She is terrified of how ill and frail her brother looks:
“You look so thin. And your hair, your golden hair …”
“The hair will grow back.” Jaime lifted his stump. She needs to see. “This won’t.”
Her eyes went wide. “The Starks …”
The conflict between the two rises because, while they have both been suffering, and understand each other’s pain to some extent, they don’t seem to fully understand the changes these traumatic events have brought . Jaime’s choice of time and words is really poor, and you do understand Cersei’s anger, since she is still devastated over Joffrey.
The Targaryens wed brother to sister, why shouldn’t we do the same? Marry me, Cersei. Stand up before the realm and say it’s me you want. We’ll have our own wedding feast, and make another son in place of Joffrey.”
And Cersei herself doesn’t really see how the loss of the hand has affected Jaime’s everything :
He shoved his stump at her face, in case she failed to see it. “And I am in no fit state to be killing anyone.”
“You have another hand, don’t you? I am not asking you to best the Hound in battle.
The show has made it seem as if their fight starts because Cersei believes everything has changed, while Jaime wants everything to go back to how it was. But what happens in the books is exactly the opposite : Cersei doesn’t want their relationship to change, she still wants him as her lover, her secret lover, and Jaime is tired of secrets, Jaime is the one who wants everything to change, he wants them to admit their love for each other in public, get married, and eventually give up the throne :
“Did you leave your wits at Riverrun?” Her voice had an edge to it. “Tommen’s throne derives from Robert, you know that.”
“He’ll have Casterly Rock, isn’t that enough? Let Father sit the throne. All I want is you.” He made to touch her cheek. Old habits die hard, and it was his right arm he lifted.
Cersei recoiled from his stump. “Don’t … don’t talk like this. You’re scaring me, Jaime. Don’t be stupid. One wrong word and you’ll cost us everything. What did they do to you?”
“They cut off my hand.”
“No, it’s more, you’re changed.” She backed off a step.
By bringing Jaime home before the wedding, the show has taken Cersei’s own trauma and replaced it with what seems insignificant in front of Jaime’s struggle - “tragic hunting accident of her husband”, come on, and they made her seem as a spoiled, inconsiderate brat. They have taken one of Cersei’s maturity moments in the relationship - she sees the logic in their relationship remaining hidden, while Jaime doesn’t really seem to grasp or fully comprehend the huge consequences of going public, and replaced it for the sake of a childish Cersei, who wants Jaime to apologize to her because he left her alone. They have taken away Jaime’s desire to change, so that their conflict seems to arise from the fact that she doesn’t want to have sex with him anymore, instead of, you know, the fact that they both have changed and can’t really understand how different their personalities have become, since before this point in ASOS, they were very convinced they were the same soul in two bodies, and this is the moment they begin to understand that they are not.
MAJOR DEATH SPOILERS END, FOR A WHILE
The second scene I felt was wrong was the Tywin-Jaime scene. Since Jaime’ been in King’s Landing for weeks, we don’t know Tywin’s reaction to his son’s maiming, but he was absolutely raging in the book :
Lord Tywin pushed himself out of his chair, breath hissing between his teeth.
“Who did this? If Lady Catelyn thinks—” (lady Catelyn can’t think anymore, Ty, you made sure of that)
“Lady Catelyn held a sword to my throat and made me swear to return her daughters. This was your goat’s work. Vargo Hoat, the Lord of Harrenhal!”
Lord Tywin looked away, disgusted. […]
His eyes went back to Jaime’s stump, and his mouth grew taut with fury. “We’ll have their heads. Every one.”
Show Jaime is not convincing enough, I’m sorry, book Jaime is undoubtedly clear when he says he does not want to follow his father’s ambitions:
“NO!” Jaime had heard all that he could stand. No, more than he could stand. He was sick of it, sick of lords and lies, sick of his father, his sister, sick of the whole bloody business. “No. No. No. No. No. How many times must I say no before you’ll hear it? […] I don’t want your Rock!”
“You are my son—”
“I am a knight of the Kingsguard. The Lord Commander of the Kingsguard! And that’s all I mean to be!”
Show Tywin mocks Jaime, and still treats him as if there is still to reconsider, but book Tywin is beyond furious and disappointed :
Firelight gleamed golden in the stiff whiskers that framed Lord Tywin’s face. A vein pulsed in his neck, but he did not speak. And did not speak. And did not speak. The strained silence went on until it was more than Jaime could endure. “Father …” he began.
“You are not my son.” Lord Tywin turned his face away. “You say you are the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and only that. Very well, ser. Go do your duty.”
And, as you can see, Tywin doesn’t even mention Jaime’s disability, so why was the line with the “crippled man with no family” necessary?
And the disowning scene is a huge breach between the two. . Jaime stops calling Tywin “Father”. Neither of them wants to repair the damage, while show Jaime seems somewhat indifferent to being disowned, and even smiles when he leaves Tywin’s solar :
“Lord Tywin has not asked for my approval. I can talk to him, but he will not listen
And the sword - book Jaime is furious about the gift, he sees it as an insult, and a mockery of his loss, show Jaime seems somewhat disappointed because he received a cool gift but he can’t use it anymore :
Ser Kevan rose as well. “Jaime, you should go to your father. This breach between you—”
“—is his doing. Nor will he mend it by sending me mocking gifts. Tell him that, if you can pry him away from the Tyrells long enough.”
His uncle looked distressed. “The gift was heartfelt. We thought that it might encourage you—”
“—to grow a new hand?”
Book Jaime is depressed. Jaime is going through a profound identity crisis, and the show simply does not capture that. Book Jaime wants to find himself again. Show Jaime wants to have sex with Cersei. And I’m not saying that book Jaime doesn’t want to have sex with Cersei, but in the books, his relationship to her looks like a way of regaining a part of his identity - as I’ve said above, he still sees himself as Cersei’s twin/lover
Moving to another Lannister, the Sansa- Tyrion-Shae triangle, really?
First of all, it seemed terribly OOC for Sansa to cry in front of Tyrion, when one of her trademarks is keeping her sufferance to herself, not to mention talking about her dead family when she wants to keep everything to herself :
He had expected anguish and anger when he told her of her brother’s death, but Sansa’s face had remained so still that for a moment he feared she had not understood. It was only later, with a heavy oaken door between them, that he heard her sobbing.
Tyrion’s jokes about Catelyn also seemed inappropriate. Book Tyrion may have his sarcasm and mockery, but not when it comes to talking about Sansa’s dead family :
“Your lady mother once accused me … well, I will not burden you with the ugly details. She accused me falsely. I never harmed your brother Bran. And I mean no harm to you.”
What does he want me to say?
“That is good to know, my lord.” He wanted something from her, but Sansa did not know what it was. He looks like a starving child, but I have no food to give him. Why won’t he leave me be?
Tyrion rubbed at his scarred, scabby nose yet again, an ugly habit that drew the eye to his ugly face.
“You have never asked me how Robb died, or your lady mother.”
“I … would sooner not know. It would give me bad dreams.”
“Then I will say no more.”
“That … that’s kind of you.”
ASOS SPOILERS- MAJOR DEATH WARNING
And Shae’s jealousy just comes too late. They might have started it last season, but now her betrayal will seem rushed.
And since we spoke of Sansa, let’s talk how stupid the reintroduction of Dontos has been. First of all, nobody even remembers him. He had none of the interactions he had with Sansa in the books, and she has no reason to trust him. The necklace Dontos gave her contains the poison that will kill Joffrey next season. In the books, Dontos promises Sansa that he will help her escape and go back home, and before the wedding, she is given a set of clear instructions, one of which is to wear the hairnet (necklace in the show) that he gave her. But with what happens in the show, how does Dontos know Sansa will wear the ugly ass necklace at the wedding in the first place? Why would Sansa wear the necklace at the Wedding? There is absolutely no measure anyone took so that the poison will be at the wedding. What if Cersei gave Sansa something else to wear? Wouldn’t it have been more logical to, you know, have someone come to her with a dress and a necklace/hairnet and tell her that she is supposed to wear them at the wedding? Wouldn’t it have been more logical to have LF send her a gift and say he hopes she wears it at the wedding? Wouldn’t it have been more logical to have Dontos say he hopes Sansa wears it at the wedding?!
MAJOR DEATH SPOILERS ENDED
Another big issue I have with what the show has done is the introduction of Prince Oberyn Nymeros Martell of Dorne.
WHY ON EARTH WAS ANOTHER BROTHEL SCENE NECESSARY? Why couldn’t we have met an important character in an actual formal context?! In the books, Oberyn arrives with an escort of 300 people, which include some of Dorne’s greatest nobles. Oberyn’s arrival is supposed to be a statement of power.
And while Pedro and Indira’s performances were really cool, there is something missing from the books. Oberyn is a snake. Oberyn is a colourful, pretty, subtle snake, who slithers around his victim and makes his presence known only when he bites. Oberyn is more subtle than ” I know Tywin gave the orders and I’m going to kill all Lannisters”. Book Oberyn brings Tyrion into his territory, book Oberyn wants to control the stage, he doesn’t give everything about him just yet. He doesn’t threaten Tyrion, he asks for justice. He knows rumours. And I think it’s somewhat cool that they are making Ellaria not give a damn about noble customs, but book Ellaria and book Oberyn demand respect for her. She might be a bastard, but she is probably the only bastard in Westeros that has an aura of nobility - her father is an important Dornish bannerman, she is the paramour of a Prince, she has bore him four daughters, she councils him, Doran Martell and his daughter respect her, and the Dornish respect her as Oberyn’s wife. Tyrion knows there will be a problem, because the Dornish will demand she will be treated as a noble, while the others will see it as an offense brought to the other noble women.
And if we are talking about the Dornishmen, why was the racism necessary? I think that in this matter, HBO tried to be edgy and ended up as being racist, because the book Dornishmen were never prejudiced as being stupid or savage.Would it have been too much to have a non-white (as much as they are) house respected as much as the other houses? It is true, the Dornish are quite unwelcome in KL, and at the Royal Wedding, but not because they “fuck goats” ( wonderful, HBO), but because there is long-going conflict between the Tyrells and the Martells, which was amplified by Oberyn’s crippling of the Tyrell heir, Willas ( but since Willas was deleted from the show, there’s no need to bring this detail into the story, right?!) So if they wanted to suggest the fact that the Dornishmen are unwelcome, they could have had Tyrell men instead of Lannister men in the brothel and have them quarrel with Oberyn for crippling their lord, and not seem racist.
Another problem I have is Arya’s whole attitude. Post RW Arya is devastated. Even Sandor feels sorry for her. She is just indifferent whether she lives or dies anymore, and it’s absolutely heartbreaking. But they just gave that up in order to make Arya seem “badass”. Having Arya become comfortable with Sandor and even smile (SMILE!?) after she kills Raff is the worst they’ve done to her character so far.
This is long enough, I’m sorry for the rant, but I felt the need to complain, and since you asked…
you’re my mission
is that it doesn’t (at least in the refrain we know) ever explicitly celebrate Tywin Lannister, the man who actually takes revenge for rebellion. There’s no glory-gilt lines about Lannister forces, or swords or blood, or gates coming down or heads coming off. It’s not a song that celebrates anything. It’s smarter than that: it’s about House Reyne.
Which is to say, it’s about no one. This song is genius because it intimidates without overbearing; it awes without shouting; it cowes without ever striking. Instead it sets up a nameless lord as brave, articulate, bold— and then the lord is just gone. Obliterated. No lord, no House, no hall, just the rain and not a soul to hear. We get a vivid, living force and then we get a ruin: this is what Tywin Lannister can do, you’ve learned without ever hearing his name or his numbers. Make sure he doesn’t have to do it to you.
It’s the musical equivalent of leaving a corpse to hang for the crows until it’s not a corpse anymore. It’s terrifying and effective and basically perfect.
Mutant and Proud
It’s like they tried to pull a Ross and Rachel with Ted and Robin but it did not work because everything pointed that they didn’t work together while Barney and Robin were the perfect fit, which they obviously missed.
I want us to be friends. Good friends.
do action movies know they can have more than one female character
Someone should make an action movie with all girls except for one guy and have no explanation or mention of it in the movie and then pay all of the actors to act surprised like they’d never noticed when they get the inevitable storm of questions.
This one male must have a shower scene, be saved by the protagonist at least once, and fall in love with a lead female.
and the winner is……….leonardo……….da vinci!!! congratulations on mona lisa
when the titles of songs arent said in the actual song i get uncomfortable
In case anyone needs some cheering up at the moment.
*accidentally sucks your dick*
you just described gay porn
aw cmon gay porn has more plot than that. its more like
*delivers your pizza*
*accidentally sucks your dick*
Yes Ron cover your boobs because you’re a girl
He’s also wearing a shirt
Guys… he lived with the goddamn Twins for YEARS, that’s probably an instinctive ‘Please don’t throw an experimental potion or giant spider on me’ reaction…
…at least he’ll never have that problem again…
Look me in the eye and tell me that was really necessary
NOT EVEN IN THE HARRY POTTER FANDOM AND THAT WAS A DOUCHE MOVE
I have been waiting for this for 84 years
It is…how you say a…metaphor